Author Topic: Reproduction [note: sex education contained in topic]  (Read 1412 times)

KriticalError

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Reproduction [note: sex education contained in topic]
« on: July 08, 2017, 10:47:54 PM »
Okay, as far as I can tell I don't *think* this has ever come up on the forums before - But I just had an insane realization.
I'm totally pathetic so I follow a few "Landy Approved" (supposedly) RP accounts on Twitter, and one for Tanith said something about kids, and it hit me.

Guys can pretty much never run out of sperm. But women have a finite amount of eggs.

So basically, every female sorcerer after x amount of time is infertile. And you can go on looking like you're in your 30's (China) but be hundreds of years old. Because of the slow aging, do sorcerer's just not think about kids? Do they just not want them?
Because Tanith is what, in her 90's? Kids would be out of the question for her as well!
Aside from Corrival academy where we actually have kids, we've haven't seen many other sorcerer children particularly so it makes me wonder - How big or small in the magical population? Is there any chance of the magical population going extinct simply from forgetting to reproduce and keep the blood lines going? Is there some magic that allows women to carry on having periods/eggs etc?
Is this even a thing?


On a side note, it'd be AMAZING to have the news that you only have to deal with periods for one life time, and not several!!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 02:34:02 PM by ravenrune »


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wassboss

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Re: Reproduction
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 10:59:08 PM »
I've always wondered about this as well but I'm pretty sure that female sorcerers simply produce more eggs than a mortal female. Using China as an example she mentions that her mother was 150+ when she was born which is well over a century after she should have stopped producing eggs. Skulduggery also had his child when he was in his hundreds and while we don't know how old his wife was I think it's safe to assume they were roughly the same age which again shows female sorcerers have a much longer time for which to have children.

Edit: I just checked in LSODM and China's mother was in fact 200 years old when she was born.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:01:50 PM by wassboss »

KriticalError

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Re: Reproduction
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 11:04:15 PM »
But then wouldn't that also imply that female's who *have* magic, but don't know about it and never find out about magic, just.. have periods until the day they die?

Or does magic just randomly duplicate a woman's eggs?

Or am I just entirely overthinking this and this isn't something Derek even ever thought about xD

I mentioned it on Twitter and someone said "They age slower so it makes sense for periods to be slower too"
Which would be a great theory, but then surely they'd never know when they're going to have a period to plan for it, or even when they're ovulating to plan for a pregnancy?

I feel like I *need* to know this unpleasant excrement now


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wassboss

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Re: Reproduction
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 11:15:22 PM »
Not really because people who have the right genes? (idk if that's the correct term) to be able to use magic but aren't aware of it don't experience the effects of it. Otherwise you'd have mortals living to be really old and looking young but not knowing why. I personally agree with that twitter person that as other biological functions are slowed down by having magic that reproduction also falls under that. Maybe the periods themselves are still once a month but they just last for a much longer time?

Honestly I doubt Derek really thought of this and since most of the characters are in their 400's  starting a family now isn't going to be in their interests. The only way it would be addressed is if Valkyrie herself got pregnant but seeing as how the books seem to be heading towards a valduggery romance I doubt that'll actually happen (or is that facade even better than we thought;).
 

Sovereign Ceadus

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Re: Reproduction
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 11:17:59 PM »
I think you're both thinking about this in the wrong way; while they're technically 90, or 200, or 500, or whatever years old, physically they are their apparent ages. What I mean by that is that China doesn't just look like a woman in her 30's, she physically is a woman in her 30's, reproductive organs and all. With this in mind, she'd be able to reproduce for a long time coming.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:18:44 PM by Sovereign Ceadus »
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Skullpony Pleasant

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Re: Reproduction
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 11:21:42 PM »
I think you're both thinking about this in the wrong way; while they're technically 90, or 200, or 500, or whatever years old, physically they are their apparent ages. What I mean by that is that China doesn't just look like a woman in her 30's, she physically is a woman in her 30's, reproductive organs and all. With this in mind, she'd be able to reproduce for a long time coming.
yeah sov but according to biology women have finite amount of  egg it does raise a question to their period come slower?
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Dregran Entropy

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 12:32:02 AM »
Added a tag to the title - remember the age demographic of the books.

I think Dan's pretty on the money.
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Mad Murdock

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2017, 01:00:53 AM »
I've been following this all morning, and I'll say Sovereign's hit the bullseye.

And I'll add in that they're still people, so their cycles would follow the regular pattern; magic wouldn't affect how many times a month a mage woman would go through that.  Unless it's in her heritage to have an irregular pattern (like the two weeks apart incidents, or two weeks long), then no, magic wouldn't affect how many times she cycles a month.
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KriticalError

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2017, 01:02:34 AM »
Periods and girls having eggs is NSFW/too mature to younger readers??? O.o
You get basic sex ed about periods and stuff around the same age the SP books are supposedly targeted o.o

Maybe that's just me though :s (please don't take that as snark or anything!! Just genuinely a bit confused is all ^^")


And anyway, as for the topic - I dunno. I don't see why the period-egg process would just slow down. Because then you're either left with periods lasting years, as opposed to 3-7 days, or you'd never know when you might get a period to plan ahead for sanitary things. Orrrr you'd never know when you're ovulating or at the right place in your cycle to plan for having a child. So I feel like "slow periods" wouldn't work.

They'd have to have more eggs than your average mortal for it to work, but eggs aren't something magic, so I don't see why a mortal who has magic, but doesn't know, wouldn't have this excess eggs.

Someone's just sent me a really good theory through Twitter dm! I'm im bed now so can post, but I'll copy it over for anyone interested in the morning!! :)

Edit because new response:
Also I don't think the argument "they're as old as they look" works with periods. You don't make more eggs. You have eggs, when you run out, that's that. So unless sorcerers have a larger supply of eggs, then they shouuuuld hit menopause the same time a regular mortal would. Regardless of how they look physically.

There's not really a way around that unless as I said sorcerers have LOADS more eggs than mortals, they'll simply run out, and leave the women infertile
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 01:07:00 AM by KriticalError »


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Mad Murdock

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2017, 02:01:38 AM »
Oh I see what you're getting at.  Ok, so, let's think about the magic gene.  Mages have the gene which triggers their magic, correct? Mortals with the same lineage have this gene too, but it's dormant, so it has no affect on them.  They won't have magic unless they (innately) trigger this gene? Correct?  So a mortal living with this gene, but possesses no magical ability of their own won't have triggered the magic within them, thus not ageing slower.

So, eggs (sex cells, or gametes).  Now I see what you're asking.
It's difficult to interpret.  Because Derek's never really delved as deep as we on the non-canon scale, we will likely never know (he has so many holes, he could take on a Swiss cheese company).
Icarus was on Skype earlier and randomly came up with this fact (I feel he may've been reading in on this as well :P ):
Quote
When in the womb female babies have over 4million eggs
After birth, that decreases to around 3million
During puberty it goes down to around 300,000
Out of those 300,000, only 400-500 will mature and be able to be fertilised
So that means that females do not produce any eggs between birth and death

Because the magic gene is active in mage women, (this is also the case for before they're born), maybe they don't loose the millions of eggs?
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TheCaptainSargey

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2017, 02:11:41 AM »
Page 203, chapter 26 of LSoDM.

"China’s grandmother, a mere thirty years older than China’s mother but two hundred years older than China"

So it's canon they can have children a lot later.
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ExtraterrestrialGuy

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2017, 03:19:37 AM »
Periods and girls having eggs is NSFW/too mature to younger readers??? O.o
You get basic sex ed about periods and stuff around the same age the SP books are supposedly targeted o.o

Maybe that's just me though :s (please don't take that as snark or anything!! Just genuinely a bit confused is all ^^")

I can't speak for Dre, but this falls under sex, which should be tagged (and spoilered if anything explicit).

ravenrune

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2017, 02:17:14 PM »
idk, it's magic so it could affect it any number of ways. if china's mother was 200 years old before she had her then i would assume it was a case of longer menstrual cycles, but i don't know for certain. if anything it's a case of derek landy wasn't really thinking about this stuff when he wrote it down so we just handwave it.

also i love the addition of the nsfw/mature topic tag added to a post covering a subject children learn when they are in school. u know. the age it says on the back of the book.

ExtraterrestrialGuy

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 02:27:59 PM »
Also i love the addition of the nsfw/mature topic tag added to a post covering a subject children learn when they are in school. u know. the age it says on the back of the book.

They also learn about sexual intercourse, but we'd still tag any discussion of it.

Skullpony Pleasant

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Re: Reproduction [NSFW - mature discussion]
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 02:32:26 PM »
Won't someone think of the children.

Yeah Derek did not think this over. But rave u do know some people come from more conservative places rite. Won't it be in your interest to at least warn them cause you know tolerance. Not naming names here but one member was an donkey to another member from a more conservative country and was a condescending donkey for the whole conversation by using buzz words. So I think respect for other more conservative views are in order. Just because you don't share there conservative view does mean you can ignore that there are people with those view.
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